Comments on: The 1st & 2nd Moments of Consumer Delight http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html Redfin Corporate Blog Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:35:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: GenY – Turning the Corner in Real Estate http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-11372 GenY – Turning the Corner in Real Estate Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:37:16 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-11372 [...] like Redfin into the Xer’s consciousness, and guess what, it’s resonating. Take Glenn’s assertion for example, “90% of our customers are under 45.” This means that clients from the age [...] [...] like Redfin into the Xer’s consciousness, and guess what, it’s resonating. Take Glenn’s assertion for example, “90% of our customers are under 45.” This means that clients from the age [...]

]]> By: joe m.a. http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2589 joe m.a. Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:59:41 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2589 Great stuff here, one quick thought. I heard a rumor that a certain on line Real Estate Firm will turn their back on Federal Equality Requirements when it comes to selling property (or more specifically who they wont sell to). If the Firm in question does not carry a license who protects the consumer? I am not accusing anyone operating on the West Coast but I am just saying, What Up? JoeMA Great stuff here, one quick thought. I heard a rumor that a certain on line Real Estate Firm will turn their back on Federal Equality Requirements when it comes to selling property (or more specifically who they wont sell to). If the Firm in question does not carry a license who protects the consumer? I am not accusing anyone operating on the West Coast but I am just saying, What Up? JoeMA

]]> By: Dave Schappell http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2564 Dave Schappell Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:50:38 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2564 Great post, Glenn -- while reading it, it reminded me of Jeff Bezos's (Amazon's Founder/CEO) goal to 'deliver customer ecstasy' -- it always made folks chuckle to say it, and often folks smirked when they heard it for the first time, but I think it's a worthy goal and one that Amazon has made strides toward achieving. In another conversation today, I mentioned to someone that I've recently come to really appreciate the over-the-top service that Nordstrom salespeople deliver -- several years ago, I wouldn't have been willing to pay for that service, but the moments of delight have brought me over. I think people lose sight of the fact that Redfin's moments of delight aren't really tied solely to the cost-savings. If that's all it was, you would already be bankrupt. Once you look past that, I think it's the overall customer experience -- from a great website, to a passionate team who's trying to change the world (or, at least, a small part of it -- Real Estate), to refreshing/innovative signage, to all the little things, including your passionate involvement with this blog, etc. I'm a continuing fan! Dave Great post, Glenn — while reading it, it reminded me of Jeff Bezos’s (Amazon’s Founder/CEO) goal to ‘deliver customer ecstasy’ — it always made folks chuckle to say it, and often folks smirked when they heard it for the first time, but I think it’s a worthy goal and one that Amazon has made strides toward achieving.

In another conversation today, I mentioned to someone that I’ve recently come to really appreciate the over-the-top service that Nordstrom salespeople deliver — several years ago, I wouldn’t have been willing to pay for that service, but the moments of delight have brought me over.

I think people lose sight of the fact that Redfin’s moments of delight aren’t really tied solely to the cost-savings. If that’s all it was, you would already be bankrupt. Once you look past that, I think it’s the overall customer experience — from a great website, to a passionate team who’s trying to change the world (or, at least, a small part of it — Real Estate), to refreshing/innovative signage, to all the little things, including your passionate involvement with this blog, etc.

I’m a continuing fan!

Dave

]]> By: agentgenius.com- national real estate opinion column » Blog Archive » Why Wait? - Here’s Glenn Kelman http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2556 agentgenius.com- national real estate opinion column » Blog Archive » Why Wait? - Here’s Glenn Kelman Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:48:00 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2556 [...] source: condodomain.com Snatched from comments in this article: The First & Second Moments of Consumer Delight We agree that the statement about how traditional brokerages maintain high commissions is [...] [...] source: condodomain.com Snatched from comments in this article: The First & Second Moments of Consumer Delight We agree that the statement about how traditional brokerages maintain high commissions is [...]

]]> By: Molly Hadley http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2555 Molly Hadley Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:35:35 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2555 Thanks for the response Glenn-I looked for the other comments as well and they are tied to another post. I can't remember which one this morning but the essence of the comments were similar to those above, so I felt like I was ranting twice. I've been all over your site because I like the idea. I've always overwhelmed my clients with data. And I've always had clients who search for info themselves and were responsive to all I could provide. I think it is the best way to make an informed decision and I do think having a bunch of it on one site is fabulous. Your neighborhood blogs, sort of fill in the traditional on the ground info that agents aquire serving a specific community and feedback from your clients could provide the extra info that is always helpful to a broad picture. In other words, I like what you are doing but I have some problems with your need to bash the old guard. Perhaps you are a little beaten up by what you see as arbitrary hinderances on your right to provide info. Perhaps you could understand that the big brokers want to continue to profit from info they have compiled just like you do. Most MLS rules are set to ensure fair competition and it is propriatory info. They've established the relationships to the clients, they've comiled the info, paid for the MLS technology and administration etc. I don't understand the commission issue because where I practiced that info was on the MLS and on all written offers. I would agree that it should be provided. "Unethical and greedy" were my words but your premise that the seller paying a commission sets up a conflict of interest between the buyers agent and client directly implies that the buyers agent is going to be tempted to bring in a higher offer. I have seen that occur with greedy and unethical realtors,(they do exist) however, your premise leaves out the natural check to that implulse, namely the ethical character of the salesperson, the incentive to foster an ongoing relationship with the client over time, and the regulatory and legal recourses already existing to protect the client. Old school realtors are no more greedy as a group than your group is. Of course they want to protect their livelyhood. Perhaps you would resent someone coming along and copying all your info, presenting it on another website and charging half of what you do in the name of delighting their clients. Finally, I have no problem with reduced commissions, that's fair market. Many agents offer parts of their commission to their buyers, or pay for home inspections etc. It is negotiable. Your model is a threat to the status quo because your salespeople are more competitive to an agent who is in buisness for themselves; your costs are lower. Nothing wrong with that. Makes us smarter and faster and benefits the customer. I appreciate you conceding that your comments may have been over broad and unneccessary and your willingness to change. Be aware that a lot of realtors are in this business because they love it and like you "subscribe to a set of values that are more important than immediate profits, particularly since these values are conducive to long term profits." You are setting yourself apart and can offer a valuable service to your buyers, but set yourself apart by doing it smarter, faster not by disparaging your competition. love ya-keep on crashin the boards Molly P.S. Imagine if you can transaction broker relationships where one agent represents both buyer and seller-it sounds outrageous but again an ethical broker and good regulations make it possible and it totally eliminates the competition between a seller and buyers agent leading to cooperation that is quite lovely Thanks for the response Glenn-I looked for the other comments as well and they are tied to another post. I can’t remember which one this morning but the essence of the comments were similar to those above, so I felt like I was ranting twice.
I’ve been all over your site because I like the idea. I’ve always overwhelmed my clients with data. And I’ve always had clients who search for info themselves and were responsive to all I could provide. I think it is the best way to make an informed decision and I do think having a bunch of it on one site is fabulous.
Your neighborhood blogs, sort of fill in the traditional on the ground info that agents aquire serving a specific community and feedback from your clients could provide the extra info that is always helpful to a broad picture.
In other words, I like what you are doing but I have some problems with your need to bash the old guard. Perhaps you are a little beaten up by what you see as arbitrary hinderances on your right to provide info.
Perhaps you could understand that the big brokers want to continue to profit from info they have compiled just like you do. Most MLS rules are set to ensure fair competition and it is propriatory info. They’ve established the relationships to the clients, they’ve comiled the info, paid for the MLS technology and administration etc. I don’t understand the commission issue because where I practiced that info was on the MLS and on all written offers. I would agree that it should be provided.
“Unethical and greedy” were my words but your premise that the seller paying a commission sets up a conflict of interest between the buyers agent and client directly implies that the buyers agent is going to be tempted to bring in a higher offer. I have seen that occur with greedy and unethical realtors,(they do exist) however, your premise leaves out the natural check to that implulse, namely the ethical character of the salesperson, the incentive to foster an ongoing relationship with the client over time, and the regulatory and legal recourses already existing to protect the client. Old school realtors are no more greedy as a group than your group is. Of course they want to protect their livelyhood.
Perhaps you would resent someone coming along and copying all your info, presenting it on another website and charging half of what you do in the name of delighting their clients.
Finally, I have no problem with reduced commissions, that’s fair market. Many agents offer parts of their commission to their buyers, or pay for home inspections etc. It is negotiable. Your model is a threat to the status quo because your salespeople are more competitive to an agent who is in buisness for themselves; your
costs are lower. Nothing wrong with that. Makes us smarter and faster and benefits the customer.
I appreciate you conceding that your comments may have been over broad and unneccessary and your willingness to change. Be aware that a lot of realtors are in this business because they love it and like you “subscribe to a set of values that are more important than immediate profits, particularly since these values are conducive to long term profits.” You are setting yourself apart and can offer a valuable service to your buyers, but set yourself apart by doing it smarter, faster not by disparaging your competition.
love ya-keep on crashin the boards

Molly

P.S. Imagine if you can transaction broker relationships where one agent represents both buyer and seller-it sounds outrageous but again an ethical broker and good regulations make it possible and it totally eliminates the competition between a seller and buyers agent leading to cooperation that is quite lovely

]]> By: Glenn Kelman http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2554 Glenn Kelman Tue, 05 Feb 2008 08:31:12 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2554 Molly: Thank you for your comment. We agree that the statement about how traditional brokerages maintain high commissions is over-broad and unnecessary. We will change it in our next release, due out at the end of February. Having said that, we are still opposed to broker-sponsored rules that govern how Redfin and others display listings that don't pay a commission. It seems possible to oppose such rules without personally insulting anyone. And it is undeniable that if the large brokerages opposed these rules, they wouldn't exist. But folks like you who do oppose these rules feel unjustly tarnished by such a general statement about traditional brokerages, which is why we will change it. We would also note that we have never called anyone unethical or greedy, though we do feel that commissions paid by the seller create unwelcome conflicts of interest between buyers' agents and their clients. As for our business model, Redfin has never denied that we want to make a profit. Profits are necessary to our continued existence, and good for our employees and investors. But we do believe that a company has to subscribe to a set of values that are more important than immediate profits, particularly since these values are conducive to long-term profits: using technology to empower the customer, focusing on results, putting the customer first. As we have tried to emphasize in this post, these are time-honored principles that we inherited from other leaders in other industries, but which we hope will also set us apart. Thanks again for your comment. Regards, Glenn PS We've looked all over for your unpublished comment and can't find it. What was it about? Molly:
Thank you for your comment.
We agree that the statement about how traditional brokerages maintain high commissions is over-broad and unnecessary. We will change it in our next release, due out at the end of February.
Having said that, we are still opposed to broker-sponsored rules that govern how Redfin and others display listings that don’t pay a commission.
It seems possible to oppose such rules without personally insulting anyone. And it is undeniable that if the large brokerages opposed these rules, they wouldn’t exist.
But folks like you who do oppose these rules feel unjustly tarnished by such a general statement about traditional brokerages, which is why we will change it.
We would also note that we have never called anyone unethical or greedy, though we do feel that commissions paid by the seller create unwelcome conflicts of interest between buyers’ agents and their clients.
As for our business model, Redfin has never denied that we want to make a profit. Profits are necessary to our continued existence, and good for our employees and investors.
But we do believe that a company has to subscribe to a set of values that are more important than immediate profits, particularly since these values are conducive to long-term profits: using technology to empower the customer, focusing on results, putting the customer first.
As we have tried to emphasize in this post, these are time-honored principles that we inherited from other leaders in other industries, but which we hope will also set us apart. Thanks again for your comment.
Regards,
Glenn

PS We’ve looked all over for your unpublished comment and can’t find it. What was it about?

]]> By: Benn http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2553 Benn Tue, 05 Feb 2008 08:16:17 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2553 Hi Glenn, Benn with agentgenius here. Lani and I would certainly come for an open house... That would be stellar. Btw, I appreciate your link to ag- you picked the sarcasm, but I found it odd that you didn't notice her actually identify herself in the gravitational field of attraction to Redfin. Her vernacular was actually natural, snarky and honest, she gets it. Not all of us Realtors out here are closed off to the delight- the link to the delight was great, and I actually love the application to the online store. Although it wasn't completely foreign to me, reading it from your perspective did give me some great insight into your shop. As an aside, I did note all of the comments to this point, and I hope that the gaps can be bridged. You've noted some mistakes in the past, and I hope you can see a great opportunity in some positive constructive conversation in the future with fellow agents- if we sincerely want to change the landscape of real estate, it would have to begin there, don't you agree? Benn agentgenius.com Hi Glenn, Benn with agentgenius here. Lani and I would certainly come for an open house… That would be stellar.

Btw, I appreciate your link to ag- you picked the sarcasm, but I found it odd that you didn’t notice her actually identify herself in the gravitational field of attraction to Redfin. Her vernacular was actually natural, snarky and honest, she gets it.

Not all of us Realtors out here are closed off to the delight- the link to the delight was great, and I actually love the application to the online store. Although it wasn’t completely foreign to me, reading it from your perspective did give me some great insight into your shop.

As an aside, I did note all of the comments to this point, and I hope that the gaps can be bridged. You’ve noted some mistakes in the past, and I hope you can see a great opportunity in some positive constructive conversation in the future with fellow agents- if we sincerely want to change the landscape of real estate, it would have to begin there, don’t you agree?

Benn
agentgenius.com

]]> By: Molly Hadley http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2552 Molly Hadley Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:54:36 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2552 Hello Glenn, I've been all over your site and the insults are in the comparisons made in several places. Start with your description of yourself on your "How we're different" page. You state, "traditional brokerages maintain high commissions by limiting consumers’ access to information, ensuring their dependence on the agent... and " We won’t hassle you to work with us, or pressure you to close." Implying by the comparison that a "traditional" brokerage does. You further state that salespeople as employees helps the customer because you can monitor customer satisfaction. In a traditional brokerage the broker is responsible legally for any malpractice of their salespeople. Salesperson gets sued, broker gets sued. Most broker's are pretty careful to make sure their people are on top of things because it's their broker's license at stake. The implication is sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant, as you tout your methods you present assumptions about traditional salespeople and brokerages. The most pernicious is the statement as if it is fact that traditional commission structures corrupt the ethical practices of agents. Higher price=higher commission so agent will be unethical. It seems logical but any transaction is complex and an agent just doesn't have that much power. You are a buyer's agent and are giving them more leverage which is good, however, the seller also deserves a good return on his investment and in that scenario, low price isn't to his interest. As I stated in a previous comment that hasn't posted, you are not a nonprofit. You're here to make money. Maybe you love real estate and it's practice, maybe you are concerned about the communities you serve, maybe you enjoy a vibrant healty real estate market. Beleive it or not, associations with traditional agents could be a benefit to you and your buyers. I know it's always more pleasant to enjoy working with other brokers and buyers and sellers. Calling others unethical greed mongers is counter productive in the long run. Hey Kim-the real freakish depth is actually freakish breadth-the web is worldwide. It is genius because the potential numbers that could use their model is huge but what happens when errors and omissions occur and the law suits start. Feduciary responsibility? Disclosure of relationships? Aren't commissions negotiable in California? Isn't it the broker's legal responsibility to tell their customers this? Hello Glenn,

I’ve been all over your site and the insults are in the comparisons made in several places. Start with your description of yourself on your “How we’re different” page. You state, “traditional brokerages maintain high commissions by limiting consumers’ access to information, ensuring their dependence on the agent… and ” We won’t hassle you to work with us, or pressure you to close.” Implying by the comparison that a “traditional” brokerage does. You further state that salespeople as employees helps the customer because you can monitor customer satisfaction. In a traditional brokerage the broker is responsible legally for any malpractice of their salespeople. Salesperson gets sued, broker gets sued. Most broker’s are pretty careful to make sure their people are on top of things because it’s their broker’s license at stake.
The implication is sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant, as you tout your methods you present assumptions about traditional salespeople and brokerages. The most pernicious is the statement as if it is fact that traditional commission structures corrupt the ethical practices of agents. Higher price=higher commission so agent will be unethical. It seems logical but any transaction is complex and an agent just doesn’t have that much power. You are a buyer’s agent and are giving them more leverage which is good, however, the seller also deserves a good return on his investment and in that scenario, low price isn’t to his interest. As I stated in a previous comment that hasn’t posted, you are not a nonprofit. You’re here to make money. Maybe you love real estate and it’s practice, maybe you are concerned about the communities you serve, maybe you enjoy a vibrant healty real estate market. Beleive it or not, associations with traditional agents could be a benefit to you and your buyers. I know it’s always more pleasant to enjoy working with other brokers and buyers and sellers. Calling others unethical greed mongers is counter productive in the long run.
Hey Kim-the real freakish depth is actually freakish breadth-the web is worldwide. It is genius because the potential numbers that could use their model is huge but what happens when errors and omissions occur and the law suits start. Feduciary responsibility? Disclosure of relationships? Aren’t commissions negotiable in California? Isn’t it the broker’s legal responsibility to tell their customers this?

]]> By: kim schieldknecht http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2550 kim schieldknecht Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:03:11 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2550 Molly, good point. These people seem to think they are reinventing real estate. All they do is give the selling agent a smaller %say 2% or maybe less. Than give the difference back to the buyer. They do not take into account the realtor or brokers marketing $$. So pay very close attention when doing a deal with these agents.Freakish depth is just re arranging the commission $ As for better tools to inform the consumer... Please! PS, Mr Fin, the market sets the price, losing site of that will keep you in the RED Molly, good point. These people seem to think they are reinventing real estate. All they do is give the selling agent a smaller %say 2% or maybe less. Than give the difference back to the buyer.
They do not take into account the realtor or brokers marketing $$. So pay very close attention when doing a deal with these agents.Freakish depth is just re arranging the commission $

As for better tools to inform the consumer… Please!

PS, Mr Fin, the market sets the price, losing site of that will keep you in the RED

]]> By: Glenn Kelman http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html/comment-page-1#comment-2549 Glenn Kelman Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:42:16 +0000 http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2008/02/the_1st_2nd_moments_of_consumer_delight.html#comment-2549 Molly, our intention was not to insult Realtors. Where do you see that we did? Molly, our intention was not to insult Realtors. Where do you see that we did?

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