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	<title>Comments on: After the Great Recession: What Will The Internet Look Like?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html</link>
	<description>Redfin Corporate Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:09:04 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Only Things You Probably Don&#8217;t Know About Michael Arrington &#124; Redfin Corporate Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-6178</link>
		<dc:creator>The Only Things You Probably Don&#8217;t Know About Michael Arrington &#124; Redfin Corporate Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-6178</guid>
		<description>[...] official sanctioning of music theft is adolescent and even  immoral. I&#8217;ve argued that his enthusiasm for free software services has led an entire generation of entrepreneurs over a cliff. I&#8217;ve chastised him for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] official sanctioning of music theft is adolescent and even  immoral. I&#8217;ve argued that his enthusiasm for free software services has led an entire generation of entrepreneurs over a cliff. I&#8217;ve chastised him for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jt</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-6065</link>
		<dc:creator>jt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-6065</guid>
		<description>Redfin is the scientology of real estate!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Redfin is the scientology of real estate!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Paskill</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5431</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Paskill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5431</guid>
		<description>I loved the above observation of you get what you pay for, as a counter-argument to &quot;the best things in life are free.&quot;

Some of my other favorite pairings include:
1A - 2 heads are better than 1.
1B - If you want something right, do it yourself.

2A - Don&#039;t judge a book by its cover.
2B - Image is everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the above observation of you get what you pay for, as a counter-argument to &#8220;the best things in life are free.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some of my other favorite pairings include:<br />
1A &#8211; 2 heads are better than 1.<br />
1B &#8211; If you want something right, do it yourself.</p>
<p>2A &#8211; Don&#8217;t judge a book by its cover.<br />
2B &#8211; Image is everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Redfin Blog - After The Great Recession - Real Estate &#171; Hamptons Real Estate Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5410</link>
		<dc:creator>Redfin Blog - After The Great Recession - Real Estate &#171; Hamptons Real Estate Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5410</guid>
		<description>[...] Part 1 - After&#8230;What Will the Internet Look Like? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Part 1 &#8211; After&#8230;What Will the Internet Look Like? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: After the Great Recession: The End of Funny Business &#124; Redfin Corporate Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5392</link>
		<dc:creator>After the Great Recession: The End of Funny Business &#124; Redfin Corporate Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5392</guid>
		<description>[...] a lot lately about how the world will look when the recession is over. Last Tuesday, we said that the Internet will shift toward applications that consumers will pay for rather than media content. Yesterday, we looked at startup economics, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a lot lately about how the world will look when the recession is over. Last Tuesday, we said that the Internet will shift toward applications that consumers will pay for rather than media content. Yesterday, we looked at startup economics, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nobody</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5384</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5384</guid>
		<description>&quot;For most ad-driven websites, the goal isn’t necessarily to engage an audience in the completion of any particular task so much as to redirect it toward a purchase on an advertiser’s site.&quot;

Great observation.  So why are you a fan of BuddyTV then?  I poked around the site a bit, and they fit your description exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For most ad-driven websites, the goal isn’t necessarily to engage an audience in the completion of any particular task so much as to redirect it toward a purchase on an advertiser’s site.&#8221;</p>
<p>Great observation.  So why are you a fan of BuddyTV then?  I poked around the site a bit, and they fit your description exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kelman</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5374</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5374</guid>
		<description>Good bust David, when I wrote that I had in mind other ad-driven real estate sites as you can well imagine, but I have clarified the post to indicate that there are exceptions when it comes to photos. But if we are trying to get it right, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s accurate either to say that you display three times the photos for most or even many listings. Overwhelmingly we seem to display the same number of photos.

Would you agree that it&#039;s generally fair to say that Redfin and some of your other broker partners display more information about the listing than you do, and that the main reason for this is that your business model is designed to complement the sites of those broker-partners? For example, the price history and a full set of amenities is displayed on Redfin&#039;s site and I assume you don&#039;t display that out of respect for the brokers?

Regarding whether I imagine &quot;a world without advertising&quot; I don&#039;t think I am that dull! I must not have written the post clearly but the post does conclude by saying: &quot;This is not to say that you can’t build beautiful ad-driven sites, or that you can’t make money from those sites. The web is by far the world’s most powerful advertising medium.&quot; I fully expect ad dollars to shift to the Web, and for the ad-driven model to continue growing. I just hope that the downturn creates room for other models.

And regarding Facebook as a utility, in introducing Facebook into the essay, I began by quoting Facebook&#039;s description of itself as a social utility, which to me is a form of an application. And generally, I argue that Facebook should charge like a utility. So I think we agree there, too.

I am embarrassed to say though that I don&#039;t know what PSE means. What does it stand for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good bust David, when I wrote that I had in mind other ad-driven real estate sites as you can well imagine, but I have clarified the post to indicate that there are exceptions when it comes to photos. But if we are trying to get it right, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s accurate either to say that you display three times the photos for most or even many listings. Overwhelmingly we seem to display the same number of photos.</p>
<p>Would you agree that it&#8217;s generally fair to say that Redfin and some of your other broker partners display more information about the listing than you do, and that the main reason for this is that your business model is designed to complement the sites of those broker-partners? For example, the price history and a full set of amenities is displayed on Redfin&#8217;s site and I assume you don&#8217;t display that out of respect for the brokers?</p>
<p>Regarding whether I imagine &#8220;a world without advertising&#8221; I don&#8217;t think I am that dull! I must not have written the post clearly but the post does conclude by saying: &#8220;This is not to say that you can’t build beautiful ad-driven sites, or that you can’t make money from those sites. The web is by far the world’s most powerful advertising medium.&#8221; I fully expect ad dollars to shift to the Web, and for the ad-driven model to continue growing. I just hope that the downturn creates room for other models.</p>
<p>And regarding Facebook as a utility, in introducing Facebook into the essay, I began by quoting Facebook&#8217;s description of itself as a social utility, which to me is a form of an application. And generally, I argue that Facebook should charge like a utility. So I think we agree there, too.</p>
<p>I am embarrassed to say though that I don&#8217;t know what PSE means. What does it stand for?</p>
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		<title>By: David G from Zillow.com</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5373</link>
		<dc:creator>David G from Zillow.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5373</guid>
		<description>Hey Glenn,

Can you please correct your comment about limiting photo&#039;s? Zillow.com displays more than 3X the number of photo&#039;s Redfin does and our site is ad supported. Thanks!

Just FYI; the ad game is also evolving to meet the changing marketplace. You seem to imagine a world without advertising and that may be how it ends up feeling to users but ads of one type or another are and will probably remain the primary revenue stream for online publishers for the next decade (unless of course you take the stance that &quot;everyone&#039;s a publisher&quot; but I&#039;m talking about net-native business models here.)

IMO, fb (and twitter) are neither media site nor web application. Zuckerberg says it best when he defines his site as a &quot;social utility.&quot; These sites are the PSE of the internet and trying to be a media site is what kills them (I&#039;m talking to you, myspace.) I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the true utilities like fb, youtube, twitter ultimately found a way to get their revenue directly from the ISP&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Glenn,</p>
<p>Can you please correct your comment about limiting photo&#8217;s? Zillow.com displays more than 3X the number of photo&#8217;s Redfin does and our site is ad supported. Thanks!</p>
<p>Just FYI; the ad game is also evolving to meet the changing marketplace. You seem to imagine a world without advertising and that may be how it ends up feeling to users but ads of one type or another are and will probably remain the primary revenue stream for online publishers for the next decade (unless of course you take the stance that &#8220;everyone&#8217;s a publisher&#8221; but I&#8217;m talking about net-native business models here.)</p>
<p>IMO, fb (and twitter) are neither media site nor web application. Zuckerberg says it best when he defines his site as a &#8220;social utility.&#8221; These sites are the PSE of the internet and trying to be a media site is what kills them (I&#8217;m talking to you, myspace.) I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the true utilities like fb, youtube, twitter ultimately found a way to get their revenue directly from the ISP&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5372</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5372</guid>
		<description>Glenn, your post reminded me of two things:
* an amusing spoof from a few years back http://www.philwainewright.com/ebiz/mscn2000-03-27.html 
* the only piece of dialogue I remember clearly from Bedazzled, in which Dudley Moore learns who really invented advertising.
In short, I welcome the Return of Software!  (But, for the record, I&#039;m not recommending the movie.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn, your post reminded me of two things:<br />
* an amusing spoof from a few years back <a href="http://www.philwainewright.com/ebiz/mscn2000-03-27.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.philwainewright.com/ebiz/mscn2000-03-27.html</a><br />
* the only piece of dialogue I remember clearly from Bedazzled, in which Dudley Moore learns who really invented advertising.<br />
In short, I welcome the Return of Software!  (But, for the record, I&#8217;m not recommending the movie.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kirill Sheynkman</title>
		<link>http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2009/03/after_the_great_recession_what_the_internet_will_look_like.html/comment-page-1#comment-5371</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirill Sheynkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.redfin.com/?p=810#comment-5371</guid>
		<description>RE: &quot;The reason is simple and comes from economics: the marginal cost of producing software is essentially zero and in a truly competitive market this would drive the price down to zero as well&quot;

Well, the reason is not that simple.  Look at the financial statements of software companies...  say Microsoft and Oracle.  Yeah, they are rich, they are ripping people off, they are just fat assholes, right?  But, their profit margin is a consistent 25% or so.  Great margin, but nowhere near what it could be if producing software really had no marginal costs.  (I know you meant the cost of putting something up on a site to be downloaded or on disc, but that is really trivial and really is worth nothing).

Microsoft and Oracle SPEND 75% of their revenues on something.  And it&#039;s not all cafeterias and Ballmer&#039;s salary.  IT COSTS MONEY TO BUILD SOFTWARE, and, importantly, THE BUILDING NEVER STOPS.  Because if you think that after you invested in coding something, marketing it, supporting it, you can kick back and just let the money roll in while you fire your engineers and have no marginal costs, you have a revelation coming if you ever try to run a software company.

If you really call something your &quot;final version&quot;, your software will and should become free.  In the software business, everything you do, everything you come up with, everything that is &quot;hot&quot; becomes old, worn out, and &quot;cold&quot; in about nine months.  You have to keep moving, and keep spending money, and therefore need revenues to keep alive -- VC&#039;s can only get you so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: &#8220;The reason is simple and comes from economics: the marginal cost of producing software is essentially zero and in a truly competitive market this would drive the price down to zero as well&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, the reason is not that simple.  Look at the financial statements of software companies&#8230;  say Microsoft and Oracle.  Yeah, they are rich, they are ripping people off, they are just fat assholes, right?  But, their profit margin is a consistent 25% or so.  Great margin, but nowhere near what it could be if producing software really had no marginal costs.  (I know you meant the cost of putting something up on a site to be downloaded or on disc, but that is really trivial and really is worth nothing).</p>
<p>Microsoft and Oracle SPEND 75% of their revenues on something.  And it&#8217;s not all cafeterias and Ballmer&#8217;s salary.  IT COSTS MONEY TO BUILD SOFTWARE, and, importantly, THE BUILDING NEVER STOPS.  Because if you think that after you invested in coding something, marketing it, supporting it, you can kick back and just let the money roll in while you fire your engineers and have no marginal costs, you have a revelation coming if you ever try to run a software company.</p>
<p>If you really call something your &#8220;final version&#8221;, your software will and should become free.  In the software business, everything you do, everything you come up with, everything that is &#8220;hot&#8221; becomes old, worn out, and &#8220;cold&#8221; in about nine months.  You have to keep moving, and keep spending money, and therefore need revenues to keep alive &#8212; VC&#8217;s can only get you so far.</p>
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