Which came as news to our chief technology officer, our Seattle-based engineering leaders, three star product managers and our hyper-productive lone marketing director, all of whom worked at Microsoft.

And it came as news to me, since I grew up in Redmond, adore Microsoft’s pass-the-bong video ads, and defend to the death the relevance of desktop applications (see comment 107). The first business book I ever read was Microsoft Secrets. My new favorite marketing campaign is Microsoft’s “I’m A PC” campaign. 

So it’s probably fair to say that no CEO from Silicon Valley has a higher opinion of Microsoft than I do. I learn from Microsoft every day. And I’m intensely grateful that so many Microsoft and Amazon folks have thrown their hat into the Redfin ring.

“This Was Discussed at the Highest Levels Within Microsoft”
The trouble started because of one line in a Redfin job description: You don’t need big money to do something big. Don’t apply if you’ve worked too long at Microsoft, Amazon or an agency.

“This was discussed,” one applicant explained over a slice of pizza at a mall food court, “at the highest levels within Microsoft.”

What kind of “pompous ass,” one angry Microsoft veteran asked us, would write this job description? The people at Microsoft and Amazon, he continued, “know exactly what it takes to run in a start up environment, we were doing it when whoever wrote this ridiculous JD [job description] was probably in diapers.”

Of course, I’m the pompous ass. We agree that 30 years ago, Microsoft could still fairly be called a startup, though by that time I had graduated to underwear.

We probably disagree over whether someone who has not worked in a startup for 30 years is still a startup-type of person. And we disagree too, over whether any disrespect was intended to Microsoft, a company more successful than we’ll likely ever be.

Different Horses for Different Courses
My point wasn’t that any 15-year veteran at Microsoft has less talent or skill than the driven maniacs who tend to thrive at Redfin. Microsoft is a gladiator academy for brainiacs. But no one can honestly tell me that marketing Windows is remotely similar to persuading someone to ditch her Realtor-friend and buy a house through a website. We have no no budget, no agencies, three people.

We have to win by delighting consumers, juicing the Google index, having Octopus sex with the blogosphere, fighting like a trapped squirrel, moving super-fast. There’s just no way a company the size of Microsoft or Amazon — or Google (after complaining that we never saw Google candidates, we have seen a few) or Apple — could remain as desperate and impatient and unrealistic as we are.

Plenty of Microsoft folks thrive at Redfin and other startups, but their point of departure is how different a startup is from Microsoft.

“How Long is Too Long?”
Our best employees left Microsoft because they were squirrels and octopuses, juicers and speed-freaks. Some had been there two years. Some five. Some longer. But none had been there “too long” which was supposed to mean past the point of being passionate about what they do.

When we wrote this job description, we’d interviewed plenty of Microsofties who talk about staying “too long.” They’d say Redfin is a way to rekindle their passion for software or business. It makes us feel like a red sports car, or an extramarital affair.

Of Microsoft, But Unlike Microsoft
The truth is that many of the people at Redfin are of Microsoft, but they all say Redfin’s not like Microsoft. Marcelo Calbucci explained the difference.

The way I think about it is that our left brain (analysis, discipline, brilliance) comes from Microsoft, and our right brain (speed-lust, techno-promiscuity, the Internet’s goofiness and freedom as a cult) comes from Silicon Valley; nearly half of Redfin engineering is based in San Francisco.

It’s a good balance. What we’ve learned from Microsoft employees has made us better in engineering, product management & HR, where Microsoft folks excel. In marketing, Microsoft has taught us how to think in different dimensions than just public relations, social networks or search engine optimization.

What Do You Think?
We thought we’d ask other startups what your experience has been hiring from Microsoft and Amazon? And we’d like to know what to do about the job description. If it has offended others, we’ll change it. If there are any folks from Microsoft or Amazon reading this blog, please, tell us what you think (and if you haven’t worked there “too long,” apply for a job!)

(Photocredit: sexy octopus, jrixunderwater; speed dog, WisDoc )

I remember walking around Pioneer Square last year with one of my favorite Redfin engineers, who was mulling career options and thinking about his friends in dermatology and hedge funds.

He’d mentioned the “boatload of money” he could make in hedge funds, so I couldn’t help but ask just what he meant by that. He told me. It was a number so large that it would more than compensate for the weekly fruit basket we offer at Redfin headquarters, and that one time we took some employees water-skiing.

The engineer stayed, and ever since I’ve checked in on him with the fear and gratitude of someone waiting to be dumped. But look who has the upper hand now? Har! har! har!

(We’re very grateful for all the folks who work at Redfin, who are worth more than we — or — I hope! — anyone else — could ever pay.)

Update: Noam Lovinsky pointed out an interesting conversation about bankers becoming Internet entrepreneurs on Fred Wilson’s blog. The comments are as good as the post.

Listening to the students’ poised recitation of accomplishments in robot-programming competitions and other obscure academic Olympics, it was hard not to think of my own summers spent mowing lawns and washing dishes, and my post-collegiate ambition to get a girlfriend, and to work in a climate-controlled facility (I became a bike messenger).

We met a national chess champion, a drum major, a fencer, an entrepreneur starting her second company, an Israeli diplomat, the daughter of a Mongol shepherd, a documentary film aficionado and, most tragically, a one-time vegetarian now addicted to Jack in the Box.

One student wore a nice little suit. Everyone else came in shorts, or a baseball cap turned backwards, or sandals (but not without explaining that he would have worn socks if any had been clean). Of course, one of us was wearing a t-shirt, so we could hardly complain.

We asked the students how they liked school, and instead of seeming beaten down by the question as a Berkeley student would, they all brightened up. We offered to buy them a warm drink but several insisted on paying, furrowing their brow kindly at my slowly drawn wallet.

And then we tried to ask about their classes, but instead they asked us: how will we attract customers to our site, when do we expect to make profits, which investors are supporting us? It made me feel like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in “Airplane,” accosted by a nine-year old about his defense against the Celtics.

Finally at 6:15, we finished up. On the drive along 101, in a borrowed Suzuki Samurai whose door handle drooped down halfway home, we compared notes. My colleague, Sasha Aickin, himself a terrifyingly precocious Stanford graduate, an award-winning documentary film-maker and an aspiring cookbook author, said the students seemed pretty good. They were ok, I mumbled. “For Stanford students, I mean.”

Truth be told, you were all wonderful. If there are any of you at Stanford or elsewhere whom we missed, especially in the often-overlooked liberal arts, let us know. We had a really nice time talking to you all and would have enjoyed it even more if we hadn’t had to listen to ourselves say the same things over and over again.

The first question Jon ever asked me changed my life. Sticking his head over my cube wall as if he’d just made a happy but probably useless discovery he said, “Hey Kelman… do you RALLY?”

We spent the rest of the night stapling brochures. And even though I’ve always been more a lollygagger, I began to think of myself as a rallyer. Jon has gone on to make a massive multi-player pornographic game, the amazing Pandora, Mozart-chiming stuffed animals, and now a technology that will allow you to insert your own face into Grand Theft Auto.

Jon is the reason I found myself on Thursday night at a Redmond Azteca as a gigantic windstorm shut down the city. We originally scheduled a meet-up there to talk to customers, partners and job-seekers. Then John Cook saw our blog announcement and sent the memo to Nerd-Land that there was a Seahawks game that night. Then the storm hit.

Matt Goyer, the product manager leading the charge, was unphased. “Maybe we should leave fifteen minutes early,” he said. “Maybe we should wimp out,” I said. He assumed I wasn’t serious. But the truth is, if I could have stayed home and still thought of myself as someone who rallied, I would have.

From our Pioneer Square office, we waded through hordes of Seahawks fans in blue firemen’s helmets and garbage bags, who seemed even happier because of the rain. It felt like one of those zoos where you walk among the animals.

Matt’s beat-up Neon from Winnipeg began burning oil after fifteen minutes on the road. We saw a waterfall pouring over the freeway wall from Capitol Hill. The lights of the city looked so beautiful in the storm that it suddenly seemed like we were seeing them through tears. Matt took advantage of the time to tell me all the ways Redfin has to be better.

When we got to the Azteca, our CTO (Michael Young) had already ordered a half-dozen beers with little lime wedges and some rancid mexi-meat, in anticipation of the crowds to come. Sitting calmly in front of a little Redfin placard he had made himself, he looked as if he had never experienced a moment of self-doubt in his life. I wondered if I could drink all six beers myself.

But we discovered that the kind of people who use Redfin to buck the real estate industry are OK bucking some bad weather too. There was JD, the big guy who used Redfin to find a place in Kirkland when he moved here from Vallejo. The two entrepreneurs who started a hosted service for printing Christmas cards. The customer who just closed on a condo through Redfin and came to tell us we had to add home-owners’ fees to the site (check back in a month). The guys from Level 3 who came by to say our site was too slow.

Even though it was half the reason we were there, I didn’t get the guts to ask anybody if he wanted a job. When we got back to the Neon and tallied up what we got out of the night, the one thing that didn’t add up but meant the whole world was this realization about Redfin’s customers: you guys, rally too. Thanks for coming out. Jon Kraft would have been proud.

In that Hobbesian spirit, Redfin is running a big coding contest for the college students whom we hope to recruit. To win, you just have to build a maps mash-up using a real estate data-set that we put out on the Internet. It should be really fun: you could build one that includes geo-coded photos with the “naked” tag from Flickr, or nearby Taco Bells. Don’t feel like you have to do anything fancy; quality of code is what counts.

The grand prize, given at every college campus we visit, is a souped-up MacBook Pro. Anyone with an entry good enough to get an interview wins a Nano (my one instinctive contribution to this contest was the insistence that the losers should get something, too).

The deadline for the first two campuses, Berkeley and Stanford, is January 16. We’ve been asked if non-college students can compete too. To tell the truth, if you can build a really sweet real estate mashup, we don’t even care if you went to college. So throw your hat in the ring!

(I just realized that the stop for the #3 bus I take on days it’s too rainy to ride a bike — many of these blog entries are written on a bus — is at the county clink. My whole life is like the beginning of a Blues Brothers’ movie.)

And don’t forget that tonight is Redfin Chimichanga Night at Azteca on the Seattle Eastside.

If you are an experienced agent who is dedicated to customer service, but tired of playing taxi cab driver we want to hear from you. Redfin offers a unique opportunity for agents to apply their real estate expertise in a consumer-oriented environment. Redfin agents are compensated with a competitive base salary and rewarded with bonuses based on customer satisfaction, not commissions.

We are looking for smart, experienced team players to help us define the future of real estate. If this makes your heart beat faster, check out this job description and drop us a line.