It is always good to take photos before moving in and after vacating for proof of condition of place.

Yes I had the exact same situtation as you in our 1st LA apt which was in Canoga Park. Longtime homeowners so we treated the place like our own. Did a SUPER thorough job cleaning (it smelled like bleach when we left). We even did a carpet steam cleaning.

Landlord made a big deal out of how the place had been remodeled before we moved in. And we were gentle on it and moved out within 6 months.

We moved out of state (Chicago) and were working new jobs so totally stressed. When the deposit check comes in the mail – LATE – and with about half of it MISSING. We made the decision to left it go since fighting something like that long distance wasn’t gonna happen. We asked for receipts. They never arrived.

But it was indeed wrong and unfair. Landlord said she repainted after us, replaced the carpet (this was just plain nuts – it was NEW when we got it and we only lived there under SIX months!) and b/c she had to take one (ONE) trash bag from the deck downstairs to the trashbin she had to “charge for a full apt cleaning” which I believe was something like $150. Somebody who will charge you $150 for taking 1 trashbag to the bin is not going to be fair with you, period.

Moreover, she claimed it was sitting unrented for 2months after we left but our NEIGHBOR told us that she moved a couple in about “2 weeks” after we left. So when I told her that she backed off of trying to screw us long distance for 2 months rent.

No offense but L.A. landlords are THE WORST I have ever encountered. You couldn’t pay me to deal with one of those shysters again. I’m sure there are some perfectly fair decent ones but I myself just wasn’t lucky enough to come across them.

Good luck with your suit!!

ps – Always make sure to get your neighbor’s phone # before you leave the apt. That way you can ‘check’ to see what is really going on after you leave. My cool ex-neighbor, Bill, easily saved us a couple thousand dollars!

For the most part, my renting experience in LA (and elsewhere) has been problem free. However, in the place I rented before my current rental, the landlord was a complete pain *to all the other tenants*. He was fine with us, but we were expecting problems upon move out.

My wife (the brains of the operation) said he typical practice has been to do a final walk-through with the landlord or manager so both parties can see the condition you’re leaving the place. Get the landlord to identify any problems in front of you, allow you to correct anything that may need correcting, then agree on the state of your deposit.

We did this, and everything went smoothly. We had painted a couple rooms, and had discussed repainting before we moved out. One room was a neutral beige, one was a light blue. The landlord decided he liked the beige as is, but the blue would have to go. We asked how much he would charge to repaint it (there would be priming needed). His price was reasonable, so we decided to let him handle it. In a week, we received our deposit check minus the agreed-upon cost of repainting that room.

Who knows – if we just left the keys in the mailbox and vanished in the night, maybe he would have tried to screw us. While we were there he tried to sue two of our neighbors and eventually had three tenants evicted on technicalities, so we were waiting on some curveball to come. But it would have been difficult for him to withhold any of the deposit above what we had agreed on.

RED

I had this happen with my first LA landlord as well. It was a weird situation to begin with – a friend had been renting the place, and when we took it over (with the landlord’s written permission) he never came from Florida to check it out.

It was an illegal triplex (on record as a single family home, which we didn’t learn until waaaay waaay later) and after a few months of living there things started to get a little weirder. The landlord evicted the two people living below us (one person in each single) and filled the places with a total of 5 new people. Obviously at this point, neighbors started to complain about the excessive number of cars parked in front of the property, and the late night parties one of our new neighbors was throwing.

Eventually, the department of buildings and safety got involved, and after our landlord threatened to “curb stomp” one of the guys living below us, the other tenants in the “building” were told to leave with 30 days notice. Suffice it to say, we weren’t surprised when we got a letter telling us we had to be out by August 1st. At that time, it was 4 months away, and we’d had just about enough of this maniac landlord, so we began looking for a new place immediately.

We found one, and when I called the landlord to give our 30 days notice (we were on a month to month lease at that point) he cursed me out for leaving before August, the date that was CONVENIENT for him.

He called me claiming we had stolen an air conditioner and a rug from the bottom unit (we had never even been in there) and tried to charge us for wear and tear to the house we’d been living in, all of which had been there before we arrived (a loose banister, a chewed up cabinet face, 5 year old carpet stains, etc.)

In the end, I called the old man and gave him a rather large piece of my mind. I read to him from the California Civil code pertaining to security deposits. I also reminded him of all of the incredibly inappropriate things he had said/done (such as using anti-semetic slurs, threatening the lives of tenants, telling us about one of the other tenants odd dating habits, his own disgusting conquests, and showing up unannounced (FROM FLORIDA!) multiple times expecting to be allowed in to our unit. And for good measure, I was sure to remind him that I still had the business card from the DBS Agent who had inquired about the multiple units. When all was said and done, he sent us our deposit (of which he had attempted to keep 1300$) minus a cleaning fee ($150.)

Since then, I’ve been charged a cleaning fee by every landlord I’ve rented from. I always clean the apartments top to bottom before I leave them, so I’m going to assume that LA landlords some how feel that this is a great way to make some extra cash. (And, owning multiple properties in LA, clearly they need that 150$ more than I do, as a starving artist.) The last guy charged me 50$ to change the contact paper in the bathroom cabinets that was there when we moved in. Some things just aren’t worth the energy.

Cindy,

I’d walk away — and I never walk away. When my wife and left our old rental in the “slums” of beverly hills we cleaned everything from top to bottom but still got charged a full month’s rent for a cleaning fee ($1,550 at the time).

The scam — as I see it — is this. Landlords have a legal right to use a security deposit to return a rental unit to it’s “move-in condition” under California law. (I’ve read the law and it’s all there in black and white.) So all a landlord in California has to do is pay to have the place professionally cleaned and/or painted once up front; after that, he or she can have the place professionally cleaned and repaired on the tenant’s dime using the security deposit.

This is a scam because landlords have figured out how to get tenants to pay for wear and tear and routine maintenance between tenants.

I chose not to go to court because we have lives and even though I was wronged it was not worth it just to go to court and have the law be against us.

I’d let it go, for what it’s worth.

The

Learn a lesson – always get a check in list when you move in and a check out inspection THE DAY YOU MOVE OUT. If you go to court you won’t win. Hope you got one for the apartment you are now in. Renting sucks.

Cindy,

A contract dispute like this is one of the aspects of renting that is definitely NOT to the tenant’s advantage.

My attorney, who owns several rental units himself, has advised me as a tenant on a similar problem and he readily acknowledges that the law is biased toward landlords. That’s just the way it is, sadly.

That’s why I always advise renters like myself to find and lease a guest house if they can. Since most “guest houses” or “guest apartments” are built on lots zoned R-1 in Los Angeles, it’s actually illegal to rent them out as dwellings. If you end up in a dispute with a landlord in this circumstance, you have powerful leverage to persuade your landlord to come around to your way of seeing things. It only takes one complaint to the Dept. of Building and Safety to get an inspection done and a compliance order issued, which can mean very, very costly changes for the owner, not the least of which is the inability to rent out the property any longer.

I know this for a fact, because I’ve done it. I have photos of the sealed-up shower and deconstructed kitchen of a “guest house” I used to rent. The unit was actually permitted as a “recreation room,” which is legally allowed to have a toilet and sink, but not a bath or shower, and not a full kitchen. There are many of these modified rec rooms being rented throughout the city, not to mention countless illegal garage conversions, and they all help tilt the playing field back toward the informed renter.

Having been in court in LA County myself over similar landlord disputes, I can tell you that the courts lean in your favor and have little patience for landlords that behave in this manner.

Provided you have some basic documentation to prove your case and show that the landlord didn’t follow the letter of the law (Failure to provide repair reciepts? Failure to provide notice of right to move out inspection?) you have a pretty good chance of coming out ahead.

Thanks so much for commenting, everyone. I had a feeling this post might hit home with some people!

Alex, I feel better after reading your post. That’s what I was hoping. Yes, she did not provide receipts, she was 1 day late returning my deposit, and the deductions are those nice, round numbers that just sound bogus. Yes, and no move-out inspection notice. The “touch-up paint” on the list of repairs should be a dead giveaway that she’s trying to pull a fast one. I think my documentation is pretty good.

I think you might want to read up on this, provided by the CA Dept of Consumer Affairs, if you haven’t already.

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

It provides good examples about pretty much all the things you got deducted claimed by landlord.

You’re right that it’s not legal but it’s standard practice. Landlords can deduct whatever they want from the security deposit and unless a tenant knows his/her rights they get away with it.

But take heart, I had $600 deducted from the security deposit in a building managed by a very popular west L.A. management company for cleaning, carpet replacement. I wrote a letter asking for receipts and explaining how they could not charge for normal wear and tear. They responded immediately and returned everything minus $125 which still wasn’t entirely fair but not worth my time or money to go to small claims court over.

I think tenants do need to be aware of their rights and fight for them. I recommend Nolo Press’s book on California tenant’s rights by the way.

I’m having the same problem you are (although I just bought a home, so no more landlord problems for me).

You are correct about wear and tear. Also, you mention that they returned your deposit on the 22nd day. That doesn’t violate the law if they had it postmarked by the 21st day. I’d check the postmark, because if they really were late, by california law your landlord has no right to deduct anything from your deposit.

Hi, J.P.,

Are you sure about that? Because the way I read it, it has to reach my hands on the 21st day. I didn’t see anything in the statute about postmarking. But maybe you know something I don’t!!

J.P., here’s what the code says:

No later than 21 calendar days after the tenant has vacated the premises, but not earlier than the time that either the landlord or the tenant provides a notice to terminate the tenancy under Section 1946 or 1946.1, Section 1161 of the Code of Civil Procedure, or not earlier than 60 calendar days prior to the expiration of a fixed-term lease, the landlord shall furnish the tenant, by personal delivery or by first-class mail, postage prepaid, a copy of an itemized statement indicating the basis for, and the amount of, any security received and the disposition of the security and shall return any remaining portion of the security to the tenant.

## Legal Disclaimer that I am not your attorney or giving legal advice that you should rely on. ##

Despite the above disclaimer, I’m relatively sure (I’m an attorney, although I do not practice landlord-tenant law). Usually, under the law, unless personal delivery is required, an action is considered complete upon mailing.

The actual statute – C.C. 1950.5(g)(1) reads as follows:

“No later than 21 calendar days after the tenant has vacated the premises…the landlord shall furnish the tenant, by personal delivery or by first-class mail, postage prepaid,
a copy of an itemized statement…and shall return any remaining portion of the security to the tenant.”

The way I read it, the landlord has the option to either 1) furnish the deposit to the tenant by personal delivery (i.e. by hand) or 2) to furnish it by mail (i.e. drop it into a mail box, postage paid). The law usually interprets such deadlines by the date you deposit the mail with the post-office, not when you receive it, because the person has no control over how long the postal service takes to deliver a letter. It’s called the “mailbox rule” in legalese.

Also – be aware that there is no set standard for what “wear and tear” is – its a very ambiguous and poorly defined legal standard.

So, your statement that painting is always wear and tear is not necessarily correct. Because you only lived there for a year, your landlord could argue that the damage to paint job exceeded what normally would be seen over a year and that is why he charged for painting. Usually you would do a pro-rata calculation – so if a paint-job typically lasts three years, and your place required painting after only one-year, he could charge your for 2/3 of the costs to repaint the place.

FYI, always check the language of your lease. My lease contained an explicity agreement that paint jobs have an expected life of 3 years and carpets of 5 years. Regardless, a court would still rule (even if you had to paint or recarpet in less time than agreed upon in the lease) that you owe nothing if the landlord cannot prove that the damage was caused by normal wear and tear.

According to CA law, the landlord has the burden of proof (i.e. he has to provide the evidence to disprove your claims). That is a good thing for tenants.

Thanks, J.P. Ah, well. We’ll just have to see what happens. She didn’t provide any backup (receipts, invoices, etc.), so maybe that will help me.

I am a HUGE fan of also videotaping the final walkthrough. That way the landlord cannot claim they didn’t (or did) say something. Lacking video, digital pictures can also be extremely helpful both when moving in, and moving out.

If your landlord doesn’t fork up the money or provide you with any receipts or invoices dated before the security deposit return check she mailed you, I would file a small claim.

The only people who should be scared of “losing” in small claims are those people who are at risk of being counter-sued by their landlord. Otherwise, as long as you feel like you have adequate support (documentation, pictures, possibly a testimonial from your former neighbors, etc.) there shouldn’t be any reason not to file.

I’m not quite sure why some people think that going to small claims is going to be this huge time sink. I spent an evening preparing for my case and spent maybe an hour at the court house tops. The only reason it took an hour is because I had to wait for the judge to listen to a few other cases before mine. You basically tell your side of the story, the defendant tells theirs, you have a few short minutes for a rebuttal and that’s it. The judge doesn’t make a decision on the spot. Its not like Judge Judy.

Personally I’d do it just to teach her a lesson. In my particular case, my landlord tried to call me multiple times after he had received his court summons to settle out of court. I wasn’t hearing any of it. The money he owed me was secondary to me wanting him to feel the same kind of distress I felt having to deal with the whole situation.

Thanks, Henry. Yes, I already have filed a small claim under the assumption that she will not pay me. You can file online; very convenient. I have to wait now until I find out whether they accept the case. Once they do, I can hire a process server and get this going.

I really just want my money. If she wanted to settle, I’d be all for it. But I understand where you’re coming from completely.

hey cindy, please update us on your case… have you gone to trial yet? i really want to know if touch up paint is normal wear and tear. thanks.

[...] posted on the blog, wanting to know the outcome of my small-claims lawsuit against my landlord that I blogged about a couple of months [...]

Cindy:
can you give us an update on your case? did you go to court? if so how did it go?

thanks,

garifo

Hi, Garifo,

A few days before we were going to court, she called wanting to settle. So we split the difference. I think I could have won in court, but in the end I was relieved to get it over with.

Hope that helps. Thanks for asking!

I think any amount–even just $25–if the landlord is legally in the wrong, is worth a trip to Small Claims Court to teach them a lesson and help prevent them from doing it to others in the future. Think about it, in a complex of 500 apts, if they charge each resident $50 for carpet cleaning upon move out, they’re making a nice little profit. I never even knew prior to this year that routinely charging residents for cleaning (not just above normal wear and tear) was illegal. Currently awaiting my deposit refund from my last place right now. Wish me luck!

“……..if they charge each resident $50 for carpet cleaning upon move out, they’re making a nice little profit.”

Since when does an expense become a profit ? The profit is ZERO if the cost of carpet cleaning is $50. The Landlord may not charge more than the actual cost. Running an Rental is no different from any other business, if the costs are not recoverable from the person who caused it, then everyone else in the complex pays in the form of higher rents. Aside from that carpet cleaning falls under “cleaning” which is allowed; carpet replacement falls under “normal wear & tear.”