Great info, thanks Katrina. Sounds like a CMA on steroids to get your property tax reassessed.

Right on, Ellie!

This is great information. I am going to take advantage of all your information to do my own property appeal. My question is (unless I missed something) where can I find a list of the comparables that the King County assessor’s office used to do my property assessment. And, I can find many comparables (that have not sold) but have been on the market for months—showing that the housing market is sluggish and that it is unrealistic. Any ideas. Thanks so much.

Glad the info is of help. Here is another link to the county site with tips for appellants:
http://www.metrokc.gov/appeals/tips.htm
There is a phone number here to call & maybe it is possible to get their data before you submit your appeal, I’m not sure, but would love to know myself.

I do know that after you submit your appeal, they will send you back a list of properties they used for valuation. I do know that this list includes only the sales closed in the 3 year valuation period that I mentioned in the blog, in your neighborhood (so to speak). They also include some comps that are outside of your immediate neighborhood, but they specify that least consideration is given to these. Then the specific house/property factors are taken into consideration including age, AGLS, building grade, upgrades, etc.

I would start with the county’s eSales system (link above) to generate your starting list, since this is their own system. Then, you may want to confirm/supplement using Redfin/realtor data for a thorough check.

One other thing, be sure and check the supporting data from the county on your home and the comparables used, for accuracy. If there is an error in your favor, this would be at least one good argument for lowering the value.

Good luck!

AS A WIDOW HOUSEING 3 HOMLESS FAMILY MEMBERS, I OBJECT TO YOUR PROPERTY INCREASES EVERY YEAR AS PROPERTY PRICES HAVE BEEN GOING DOWN.YOU ARE TAXING ME OUT OF MY HOME.PLEASE LOWER MY TAXES.

Hello,

I accessed the link that you provided and found that you can work with the Property Tax Advisor’s office to get information for an appeal. They have provided me with the area reports including the area number and sub area numbers. It is helpful to have those. Then I accessed their 2008 area report and got information on comps. It is a pretty involved report (Probably 70 plus pages) so really having the lot and sub lot information for my specific area was crucial so I can concentrate on only those areas that apply to me.

Thanks for the helpful info! Do you know if the info they gave you was the same as that generated from their online eSales system?

The comp list in the report from King County is a list by the area number and sub area so it is difficult to know exactly which comps specifically were used. I am going to use the King County resource listed in the link you provided and see how that works.

Here is an update to my previous post. Based on the link you provided me, I called the phone number (206) 296-5202. This is the Property Tax Advisor who is available to assist in the appeal process. They confirm the parcel number and description and then go through all the specifics such as square footage etc. to make sure that all of the aspects are correct. Note– I would be sure to look at the description of your property ahead of time to make sure you agree and can do any research–if needed. I think areas like grade and condition could be a bit arbitrary. You can get a list of the definitions of what the terms mean and see if you agree. This office then takes about 2 weeks (in my case anyway but that might be because I have time) and will send me via mail a list of comps that the tax assessor used to determine property value. So, at this point, I will wait to see what they have used before I proceed further.

Hey Jacalyn, thanks again for reporting back. Hopefully they won’t eat up the 60 day appeal time and will send you their comps soon. I do know they look at sold comps in your direct neighborhood during the specified three year time period first and foremost and compare for AGLA, grade, and condition.

If you submit the appeal, you will get a packet back, which does show you what they looked at, and which of yours they may have eliminated.

I would just make sure that if time starts to run out, you submit the petition before the deadline. In the worst case, mark the box that says you will be submitting additional materials and this will give you some additional time.

Fewer people win this first appeal, but more are successful at the in person hearing. I think I’ve heard it’s about 50% success rate after going through both processes.

Of course, even worse, it’s very likely that this process will have to be repeated yearly, because next year’s valuations will probably be on the rise also.

I just ran some numbers based on the County’s own tool and discovered that we (Snoqualmie Ridge) are almost back to 2005 levels on cost per sq. ft., cost per land sq. ft. and average sale price. Not sure why my assessed value is now $70,000 more than what I paid for my house back in 2005.

I was wondering how can I appeal the taxes on a new construction house. We bought our house last year and the tax valuation we are getting now is quite far off from what I can see other neighbors (that have had their houses for a couple of years) are paying for the same kind of house (same model, basically).

Would an appeal be valid based on 2007 paid taxes from similar, neighboring houses?

Sean, my guess is that your value is now up because of the three year valuation period that I wrote about here:

http://seattle.redfin.com/blog/2008/07/why_your_property_tax_value_increases_though_your_market_value_declines.html

Remember, any sales made after 1/1/2008 are not included in their valuation. Yes, that’s right, as I understand it, the most recent sales are not indicative of current value. Go figure.

Paul, is your current valuation set at the price you bought your house for, or close to it? I would think that since you bought your house during the valuation period, sales price would be pretty much your assessed value. Take a look at the link I posted for Sean above, which explains the typical valuation, as I understand it.

It’s a nuance, but I think technically they consider the market value of similar homes, not the amount of taxes paid.

There’s also an info number for the process, which you can call with questions. It’s here:

http://www.metrokc.gov/Assessor/Contacts.htm

Here’s the state website with information (maybe this is new?) about the second round of appeal, if you don’t get anywhere with King County:

http://bta.state.wa.us/default.htm

It includes How to Appeal, complete with online forms for collecting data, etc.:

http://bta.state.wa.us/appeal/property.htm

And published decisions from various counties:

http://bta.state.wa.us/decisions/default.htm

What incentive is there to improve your home when by doing so you’re basically taking food from your own mouth as the tax assessor will penalize you by raising your property taxes. What kind of system is this? We are being bled dry by property taxes and basically being taxed out of the homes we work all our lives to attain. We need to stand up for ourselves and use our voices to call our city and county council members who are directly responsible for budgeting and dictating our tax levels. This is an arbitrary tax system that does not care about working families struggling to keep their homes and pay their bills in a recession economy.

What is the difference between the informal appeal and the long form “Appeal and Real Property Petition to the K.C. Board of Equalization”?
Starting in on this by looking at neighborhood properties, I found that land values are not uniform. Vacant Land has a much lower value. I am in a 6 unit condo and the added up land value for each unit is more than 5 times of that of a vacant lot close by.
We have one unit in the building on the market since last November for 700,000 yet its 2009 value is set at 770,000.
Since there will be many appeals and results will not come before April’s due date, do we have to pay the “wrong and higher” value anyhow?

Not sure what the “informal appeal” is that you’re referring to, can you point me in the right direction?

The next tax valuations are actually for the next year, so the new valuation you received is for 2009 taxes. The upcoming October bill is still based on a previous valuation and is no longer disputable.

If for some reason, your 2009 valuation doesn’t get settled by the time 2009 taxes are due, you should still pay the taxes on time, but and seek a reimbursement if you win your appeal.

If you have any questions, you should certainly call the Tax Assessor’s office for more info.
http://www.metrokc.gov/appeals/tips.htm

Also, here’s another interesting quote about valuation in Cindy Zetts’ blog about property valuation. She also notes that King County Tax Advisor Barbara Alsheikh will be at The Times at noon Sept. 4 for a live question-and-answer session.

Apologies, for whatever reason, I can’t get the link to her blog dated August 14th up, so here’s the quote:

While the assessed value is supposed to mirror the market value, they’re not the same thing, said Stan Roe, who’s with the King County Assessor’s Office.

“The market sells it as one piece,” Roe said. “They don’t look at it separately as land and house. But by law, we have to split it out.”

Indeed, state law says, the assessor must value the land as if it were vacant. After the land value is determined, the assessor determines the total value of the property. Then the land’s worth is subtracted from the total and the remainder becomes the value of the building.

“If land costs are going up, something has to give on the other end,” Roe said, “because we can’t adjust the total. It has to equal 100 percent of the market. That’s why you see a lot of properties on Lake Washington that may only have $1,000 value on the house because the real value is in the land.”

Is valuing properties this way a bad deal for homeowners? Not really because it doesn’t control market value, and it may even help keep taxes down. For more on valuation, visit the King County property assessor’s Web site.

Katrina thanks for your help. Just to update, I requested the comps for my appeal from the Property Tax Advisor’s office. Initially, they told me that my comp package would be mailed to me and be in my hands in 2 weeks but that was almost 3 weeks ago. So I called again and they indicated they are so far behind that they aren’t sure when mine will be released. In other words, when I will see the comp package in the mail.

So, there advise, was to file the petition now so I don’t miss my final date. On question 3, they said to state the estimated fair market value that I think is fair. (kind of difficult without comps but I will do some of my own analysis.) And, then on number 4 state that the sales from 2005/2006/2007 don’t support the assessed value. And indicate that additional documentary evidence will be sent no later than 7 business days prior to my scheduled hearing. This will give me more time, I won’t miss the appeal date and I will get my documentation in well (hopefully) before the hearing date is set. Sounds like lots of people are appealing this year.

Hey Jacalyn, right on! I’d advise the same thing–file the petition and indicate that supplementary materials are coming. There is a box on the form for that. And yes, you are right, I think TONS of people are appealing. I hear that based on historical cases, it’s about a 50/50 shot on this.

In the meantime, I might also suggest getting comps from a realtor, as the old detailed MLS listings will also list features on it that you may want to use for basis of comparison. Reviewing the stuff I have on hand, they seem to use comps from all over your general area. Good luck with this mess!

Two additional items–the advisor’s office told me when I send in the appeal information including the form to send it certified mail so that there is a tracking device and based on the volume of requests the office is getting that I have proof that I sent the information in.

Also, I don’t know any realtor so I was wondering how I approach one to request the old detailed MLS listings. They won’t be getting any commmission from my request so I wondered how you would approach the realtor and specifically the most efficient way that I ask for the information. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

That’s a great idea, since just about everybody I know is appealing this year.

If you don’t know any realtors, looking up sales on Redfin is a good place to start. You can also supplement it by using the county’s eSales system (link in main text above). I’d bet this is what the county’s office uses also to generate your results, though they are probably better at searching or might have a few more ways of tweaking it than the ordinary person does.

More tidbits of goodies from the tax assessor’s office here:

http://blog.redfin.com/seattle/2008/09/more_king_county_property_tax_appeal_q_and_a.html

Wow!! This is frustrating. I did send in my notice that I am appealing and did get a confirmation letter back as well as my mailing confirmation BUT I have yet to receive the information I requested from the Property Tax Advisor’s office. I requested the comp information at the beginning of August and after a number of phone calls–I have only gotten excuses for why the office has not been able to respond to my request. I am frustrated by the length of time it is taking for me to get the comp information and for the continued excuses from the office for the time delays.

Your input was invaluable–if anyone wants to appeal get the 2 page paperwork in because it is a long, long, long wait for the comp information.

In the mean time, I am doing my own comp search but would really like the information from the property tax advisor’s office.

Thanks Jacalyn

I’m glad you’ve found this info helpful! It doesn’t surprise me that it will be a lengthy wait before the comps or responses are returned. Their office has likely been slammed with appeals this year–most everybody I know has appealed as well!

If your appeal is still pending by the first 2009 tax installment date, remember, you’ll need to pay the amount regardless to avoid potential penalties. If the appeal goes in your favor, the assessor’s office will adjust after-the-fact, for the amount due back.

I initially contacted the Property Tax Advisor’s office in early August and it is now the end of September and still I have no comps. I have been calling the office every 2 weeks and getting lots of excuses. I have heard it all–my contact is working weekends and nights, she worked over Labor Day, has letters to write but can’t get to them etc. etc. The last message from them said they were answering more phone calls and unable to get things done because of that. I will say that the office is doing a great job of following up with me–even if it is only excuses for not getting the comps to me. The office did offer to help me start the appeal process without the research and backup–which thanks to Katrina I have already done. I just hope that I get the comps in enough time to get them to the committee before my hearing.

Is there a way to find out now when my hearing date will be?

Thanks

So sorry to hear that you’re still caught in the process–I can only imagine the volume of appeals they got this year! Research aside, have you tried calling the number and asking about potential hearing dates?

Nonetheless, you should still work on putting together your support and submitting it. Between Redfin sales data and the e-sales system that King County has, you likely have all the info you would need.

I also heard there is a local consultant who I believe used to work for the the King County Tax Assessor’s office. I’ve no personal experience with him, nor do I know what his charges are, but here’s his website:

http://www.harleyhoppe.com/

I know of at least one win that’s come back already, where King County stipulated to the appellant’s value, no hearing required.

Good luck!

A little frustrated with this information. perhaps I missed something. The Assessor’s Office is forbidden by state law to include 2008 market sales, but we are not! My appeal will include 2008 sales.

Next year (2009), 2008 market sales will be considered, but not for this year–they will be excluded by the Tax Assessor’s office.

I just got the information from the King County Tax Advisor’s office this weekend. I requested the information in the beginning of August and have made numerous follow-up phone calls to the agency to get my request fulfilled. When I called the last time–it sounded like they lost my request or information. Anyway, the letter that I got with the packet is dated September 22 and the envelope is postmarked October 23. My advice don’t wait to get the information but keep calling to follow-up on it otherwise it might just get lost among many other requests.

Jacalyn

Quick questions. On the comps that I got back from the Assessor’s search, the included a variety of properties that are zoned RA5 but the lot size ranges from 58,000 to 33,000. That doesn’t make sense to me since it would be zoned at 5 acre parcels but the lot size would be quite a bit smaller in square footage. Any idea on how that happens?

And, what (sales difference) might it make to have a private well source versus being able to access the water district. And, what difference does a public access versus a private access make in sales value?

Did my B of E presentation yesterday so here are some facts to focus on. 1) do not assume that the person hearing your appeal, no matter the number they have already heard, “knows” what is, and is not, germaim to valuation. Example, the Board may think that the Appraiser’s “List of Sales” is the guideline. Look at what Scott Noble, Assessor, tells the citizens of KC: “The valuations have been based on three years of sales to mitigate speculation and provide the taxpayer with reasonable assessed values.” Blatently false, they pick three sales to validate your assessment. 2) The Assessor makes these false statements in his newsletter as well: “The new assessments, in general, remain below market value as of January 1, 2008.” Also, this from the Assessors eSales Search System: “…the assessors office does not have access to title records and other documents.” Blatantly false, Records Office records title records, and within two weeks the Assessors can access those records on their shared computer system. 3)Lastly, remember that the RE bubble burst about thirty [30] months ago, and the Assessors Office wants you to believe that your home has appreciated. Homes today are now at a late 2003 price level [see Case-Shiller National Price Index Study]
Good luck, thanks for stopping by for a view.

My property taxes went up 65% this year. When I bought my house in 2004 they were $1,100/yr. In 2007 they went up to $2,400/yr. This year they are $3,850/yr. Is there a cap on how much they can raise your taxes every year? This is outragous, my house is only 580 square feet!
A couple years ago they made it illegal to add to the template of my home, so no adding onto the home. (that should DECREASE the value of it right)? Now it’s declared in a flood zone so insurance in way more expensive too! HELP!

One thing to look into carefully (when you are appealing) is what homes did the tax assessor’s office use as comps for your home. THe list of comps used by the assessor’s office should be something you get when you appeal. Reviewing that list of home can prove very valuable. Also driving by the homes will give you more feedback if you think this home should even have been used as a comp. I found that several of the homes used were not even close to be comparable. Comparing factors like square footage and the obvious differences is a start and then a drive by the home will let you know if the neighborhood and the home are anywhere comparable to your property and home. The assessor does send pictures but in black and white and with one view it just doesn’t give a very good representation of the house itself. Keep in mind that the assessor’s office doesn’t view these homes they are just using a database and pictures don’t always tell it all.

I have posted a web site at http://www.hitax.info concerned with perceived excessive assessments in Fort Ann may apply to other districts. The sites main objective is to demonstrate differences between 2008 – 2009 data.
The charts list plot sizes both for length times width and in acres. Not all data is provided for both years for plot sizes. My goal is to have the information distributed to a large population so that others may compile detailed comparative data. Hopefully my data will be found to be constant with larger samples. In replies please use the subject line – hitax assessment -. I also do not link my email to avoid mail harvesters.
Find your assessment value per foot by length times width and by acre. First look at the dollar figure of your assessment, then see which dimension is applied for calculation of your plot.There may be up to four values for the years 2008 and 2009. This is the result of values being “floated” to obtain equality of the measurements.

To determine assessment amount per Sq. Ft. divide the quoted assessment by the total square feet by the assessment amount.

Example: $106,144 / 15,000 Sq.Ft. = $7.076 Per Sq. Ft. Then from the chart below:

Add $5.00 and $2.00 as . 87,120 + 217,800 = $ 304,920 is the total assessment per acre.

To find the number of square feet per acre multiply the posted value by 43560. Less than 1 will yield less Sq.Ft.,over 1 more than 43560.

Assessment = $ Sq. Ft. Assessment Value = acre

$ 1.00 $ 43,560
2.00 87,120
3.00 130,680
4.00 174,240
5.00 217,800
10.00 435,600
15.00 653,400
20.00 871,200
Thanks. Roy