I guess it depends on your definition of a “good small city.” Berkeley is technically a small city…in the midst of an area with, what, 6M people. With that kind of extraneous population support (the kids from Walnut Creek hanging out at Amoeba), you can support an unusual number of unique stores, etc.

However, one can also go to any of a couple dozen college towns across the US, college towns that are truly “small cities” (not enclaves of megalopolises) and find many of these same characteristics. Madison, WI, Iowa City, Athens Georgia, Columbia Missouri, etc etc also fit this description of unique places that are truly small cities. There are additional ones beyond those of course. With the added benefits of less crime, lower cost of living etc.

Again, Berkeley’s fine if you like it. As Chabon says, to like it you have to enjoy the “Berkeley frown” as he so aptly puts it, the people who feel it necessary to opine on my personal habits, who feel it appropriate to cast aspersions on people’s characters because of the political views they have, who enjoy telling you (or legislating) what to do with your personal property, and in general behave as, for lack of a better term, know-it-alls. If you agree with their general policies or enjoy being told how you should behave, it’s a great small town.

I don’t generally like people trying to tell me not to eat meat, not to drink, who walk up and say that “oh, you have another little Democrat” when the Berkeleyite sees me with my 3 year old boy, assuming, of course (like all right minded folk in the person’s viewpoint) I share his political views.

I already have a mother, I don’t need random people voicing their views on how I should lead my life. That’s what Berkeley feels like to me–100,000 nagging moms telling me to (only) eat my vegetables, don’t drive, don’t shop at Wal-Mart, etc etc. Sorry, I’m an adult, and have lived on my own since 2 months before I turned 18, and have done just fine.

I agree with David. Berkeley is like the west virginia of the extreme left. I dont see any difference between the radical right pushing their views on you in the deep south, and the crazy left wingers in Berkeley constantly in your face judging you.

Berkeley is the only city in the entire bay area I avoid at all costs. There is not a single restaurant or shop worth visiting, which outweighs the annoying and/or scary population accosting me every 10 steps.

I like my freedom, and Berkeley is a constant threat and reminder of what it would be like to lose it.

Wow, sounds like you guys would be much better off NOT living in Berkeley.

Phew, dodged a bullet there. You’re welcome…

Like I said, I lived there for 6 years. It wasn’t horrible, or I would have moved sooner. Heck I’d live there again, if it were priced correctly. I don’t understand the price premium put on living there, so I don’t pay it.

Toady,

I’d just like to think for a second on ideological diversity. Why do you want to live where (almost) everyone thinks alike? Why would you find living near me (in Berkeley) so disturbing?

I’m used to defending my politics and attitudes, obviously, having lived in Berkeley for so long. Heck, I was nearly physically assaulted in a bar for mentioning whom I voted for last election. Never mind the lovely invectives coming out of a series of Middle Eastern protests on campus over the years. Is this what the “bastion of free speech” means? Getting threatened for voting a certain way? Personally insulted for having a different view?

Why does having your viewpoints challenged make you uncomfortable? Is it that hard to defend your views? Does living in a one-party city/state increase your freedom or improve your life?

Think about it. Perhaps when you and more of your fellow Berkeley residents open your minds and lose your prejudices, Berkeley will become that much more desirable.

Cheers.

David

David, all that I can say is that I really don’t know what you’re talking about. People here don’t all think alike. I didn’t say that I would find living next to you disturbing. I merely noted that you and SC have made your dislike of Berkeley abundantly clear.

I don’t know what happened to you while you were living here. I don’t know what bar you were almost assaulted in, but I think that’s outrageous. It’s just that I have never even heard of anything like that ever happening. Heck, in almost 20 years of drinking, I’ve never even witnessed a bar fight over anything in Berkeley ever.

I don’t know what lovely invectives you heard coming out of a series of Middle Eastern protests on campus, but I do know that lovely invectives have been coming out of all manner of protests on college campuses all over the world for, well, centuries. I wouldn’t take it personally.

I’m sorry that you were assaulted and threatened while you were here. But your experience in Berkeley was apparently 180 degrees from mine. I’ve found this to be an extraordinarily tolerant and welcoming community.

And yes, I do know what it’s like elsewhere. Speaking of inhospitable and unwelcoming, I grew up in Lafayette and Walnut Creek. I lived in New York and found it to be a little impersonal. Savannah was too rural. Same with rural NoCal. Seattle is nice, but the weather is garbage. You want an intolerant populace, try Jakarta.

A couple of days ago, you wondered why people live in Berkeley. I live in Berkeley, and I told you why I live here. Your reaction was to reject my rationale and insist that there is some other reason that people live here. I think that’s kind of an unreasonable attitude, but you’re free to believe whatever you want to believe.

I just don’t understand why you’re so insistent about rationalizing your decision. You didn’t like Berkeley, and you moved away. Everything worked out for the best. Move on. I don’t spend all day posting, “Walnut Creek is a soulless hellhole” in the CoCo County section. Seemingly, one has better things to do with one’s time.

You’re not making me uncomfortable, I just don’t know what the point is in continuing. These Internet flame wars are kind of boring.

And SC, now you have to cap on West Virginia. Is there anywhere outside of Walnut Creek that you do like?

I’ve only ever visited Clarksburg and Morgantown, but I served with some West Virginians, and they were all stand-up guys.

[...] tracey.taylor put an intriguing blog post on Love It Or Loathe It â

I dont particularly care for Walnut Creek either, but it is the lesser of 2 evils when compared to Berkeley. What I find most amusing about people who love Berkeley is they are actually stunned there are people who cant stand it there or could possibly disagree with their viewpoints. Im laughing while typing this right now.

And Toady, Clearly you missed my point about the west virginia analogy, which doesnt surprise me based on your previous posts.

Did you have permission to reprint that?

Pretty nice op-ed in the Chron today about how, though Berkeley appears to be run by dangerously unqualified lunatics, it is actually teh aw3some:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/18/EDKJV3P2P.DTL

Toady: thank you for the heads-up on the op-ed piece which I had missed. It’s very encouraging. If I had a dollar for every time someone in this city had told me how badly the place was run…

I agree with SC 100%. I currently live in Berkeley and this place is so hypocritical. They are so far left, that they don’t even take into account the other sides of things. Essentially , they are the one’s who are just as ignorant as they claim others to be. The people are cheap and rich, and yet this place is known for creating equality among human beings. Yeah right, equality….I don’t think so. They are just as selfish as those capitalist on Wall Street. How about the population of African Americans who make up the majority, and yet, ironically they end up dropping out of schools because they get caught in the vicious cycle, while people from Berkeley are sending their little tax deductions to Africa. Give me a break. Half of these people, or quite possibly more than half depend on drugs and alcohol to get them through their days. And yet because I could have quite possibly offended someone, they will probably look for mis-spelled words or gramatical errors and criticize me. Oh yeah, and people from Berkeley try to move away from “name brands” but yet they support big brands like “Organic” and “Specialized”. Ring a bell? No one around here has beliefs and morals and you don’t want to be happy until you try to disect and know exactly what happiness is, and when you come to the conclusion that it is a state of mind, just like “love”, you don’t accept it. That is why you are all so depressed.

I’m a UC Berkeley student, and have been for two years. Interestingly enough, I lived in Walnut Creek for the first 18 years of my life, so I have a decent perspective on the two places. I think they are more alike than residents of either town would like to admit. Both have some quite a bit of very yuppie-ish, overpriced commercial areas (Main St. and downtown WC, College Ave. in Berk), and some very beautiful scenery. The problem that I have with Walnut Creek is that it lacks, in my view, a culture. People are only nominally concerned with anything beyond their own financial welfare, their family, and perhaps the problems they hear about each night on the news. Now, there is nothing wrong with that. People in WC do not challenge each other, they do not step on each other’s toes–they mainly keep to themselves and hence it’s a pretty uninteresting place to me, but it is a clean, safe environment in which to raise a family (obviously, my parents think so). Berkeley, on the other hand, is a little bit noisy. People there are not afraid to voice their opinions and express their preferences for everything from bluegrass and jazz (at Freight and Salvage, for example) to hardcore and punk music (924 Gilman). As a result of all these different outlets, things can get contentious, and often do. I have occasionally been made uncomfortable by someone expressing their views (the instances being as follows: one day when pro-palestinian protesters blocked off a large section of campus through which I needed to pass to get to class; some crazies dressed as convicts who proceeded to yell at me about the evils of torture as I passed on Bancroft; the extremely annoying group of non-affiliated Christians who play horrible music very loudly on the corner of next to Amoeba unfortunately regularly; and then of course, the fairly numerous campus regulars yelling about everything from the need for redemption to, conversely, the evils of God). One thing you may notice is that I’ve never once been made to feel even a remote fear for my physical safety by any kind of protester, and that each of these auditory annoyances can be easily left behind simply by walking down the street.

All of these experiences, not to mention the thousands of positive ones I’ve had participating in everything from street festivals to impromptu concerts and picnics, contribute to a culture that is distinctly Berkeleyan. Though I have often felt annoyance at some of the most outspoken of Berkeley’s personalities, I prefer this to the silence of Walnut Creek’s “bubble,” as local kids pejoratively call it. If you don’t like noise, Berkeley is simply not for you–and if you like it, don’t live in Walnut Creek. It’s as simple as that. I have enough love for both places to see that neither is right or wrong, and in fact I think it is one of the Bay Area’s greatest attributes that cities with such natural beauty, but such different environments, can exist in such close proximity.