Tracey: thanks for uncovering that story and passing it along. I suppose it's better to know than wonder. Hurrah for alert neighbors ready to dial 911. Shame the police never found the perpetrators.

-Pop

David: My definition of mugging is assault with the intention of robbery, not murder, hence my "preference" for a knife over a gun. But seriously this conversation is taking a surreal turn. Can we move on to a cheerier topic? Real estate perhaps?!

Pop: I now know what happened on Friday. Read about it here: http://www.ktvu.com/news/16378...

Pop: I now know what was going on Friday. Three men are alleged to have carjacked a San Ramon man in Oakland, kidnapped him and robbed his home, then escaped in the stolen car. They were on Highway 24 then crashed near the Tunnel Road exit. They then fled the crash site on foot after which they may have attempted to break into a home around Tunnel and Roble Road. Read about it here: http://www.ktvu.com/news/16378...

Heh. You're just as dead.

Glad you like both places. I'd like London more, but it's even more expensive.

David: A knife. I never said London was safer than NYC. I left London in 2005. I loved living there as I do here. Shall we leave it there?!

Is it better to get mugged with a gun or a knife?

You'll notice that Londoners get mugged at about the same rate as Bay Area residents.

Seriously, it's your perception, sure, and you're entitled to it, but London is not any safer than NYC (it's actually significantly less safe than NYC), and is comparable to the Bay Area. When did you leave London? It's gotten much worse the past few years.

I don't know the stats for "gun crime" in the Bay Area, but not all muggings are with a gun. London had about 3600 "gun crimes" in 2007.

David: I don't want to argue with the numbers but the term "violence against persons" covers a multitude of sins, from a simple shove to a full-blown attack. The critical difference in my mind is that if I am mugged in Berkeley or Oakland there's a much higher chance my assailant will have a gun.

Pop: I too saw and heard the police and checked the local news. It certainly looked like something serious. But I am none the wiser. Anyone?

On a more local note, does anyone know why Ashby was closed on Friday around 1 pm from Claremont up to the top of the hill? I stopped counting Berkeley police flying through the Ashby and College intersection at 16 cars and one motorcycle, all sirens blazing. I heard Hwy 13 was closed in both directions and saw police helicopters over the neighborhood. Watched for news reports, but so far can't find anything. Surprising, with that much investment by Berkeley PD in whatever the incident was.

Tracey,

You're right, that's a completely irrational belief.
Gun crime is up huge in England since banning handguns, as curiously enough people who want to mug and kill other people don't particularly care about a law that's supposed to keep them from buying a gun.

In March, 2008, there were 18 murders in London, and 14,500 "violence against persons" acts, along with 7900 burglaries. There were 159 murders in the last 12 months, 36,500 robberies

That compares pretty well with the entire Bay Area. There are very few murders or other violent crime outside Oakland, Richmond and SF. There were a bit over 160 murders in Oakland & SF in the past 12 months, and about 5500 robberies (Oakland+SF=about 1/7 of London's population).

So just on the surface, violent crime in London (England) compares to violent crime in the most violent of Bay Area cities (Oakland&SF).

London is less safe than NYC in terms of overall violent crime, also.

David

OK. First off I probably shouldn't even have tried to draw the apple and orange comparison of homicide rates in Berkeley (pop 100,000) and London, England (pop 8 million).

Then to source the wrong data (I really didn't mean Ontario) just goes to show I need a weekend of R&R.

I have now found what looks like a reliable figure of 159 homicides in London England in the 12 months to April 2008 (http://www.met.police.uk/crime....

Apologies for the confusion.

David: While of course I agree that crime in London is rampant, I still believe (perhaps irrationally) that I am more likely to be shot in the Bay Area than in London. There just aren't that many guns in England.

The link provided that shows 5 homicides for 2007 goes to the London Police Service of London, Ontario, Canada. The London, England figures are somewhat different. http://www.met.police.uk/crime...

Tracey's crime stats were for London, Ontario, not London, England.

Crime does spike in summer. Always has, especially in the Midwest, where it's actually warm in summer. but the longer days, kids out of school etc, all contribute to more crime.

As for London, it might have fewer murders, but the crime rate there is unbelievably high, especially burglaries and muggings. By the way, I think your murder number for London is way off--
this article says that 65 people under 25 were killed in 2007 (no mention of over 25):
http://london.wantedineurope.c...

London overall is much less safe than NYC.

It is disconcerting, but what are you going to do, move away from the Bay area??? Not me. If it's at all comforting, most murders are between people who know each other. The random killings south of Cal were more random, but were the obvious result of too much alcohol and testosterone.

However, I won't live in Oakland because of the crime issue (I'm in Berkeley)!!! Easier there to get caught in the crossfire and the crime is more random and serious, and there's far more of it.