Thanks, Tim: You made my point for me!

Anna (and others): The comment that you can find this information in the weekly SFGate sold homes listings is not entirely correct. Most homes that are sold in SF are shown in the chronicle, but some are omitted. Also, I believe that Zillow is pulling data from the county records, but some sold homes never have their sale price listed there.

For example, I believe a member of SFAR recently sold the house at 80 San Fernando Way in San Francisco. I never saw the price published in the chronicle, nor does Zillow know the sales price. However, the real estate agent who helped me buy my house sent me a list of sales in 2006 (I assume from MLS) which showed that it sold for $3.2 on 10/23/06.

It seemed kind of shady when I never found the info in the sold homes listings or on Zillow, but only found out based on the real estate agent's list.

MLS companies have every right to protect their private data, but its members should not chastise others who make public the data that is supposed to be public anyway, which includes the sales price.

everyone, PEACE! I meant the blog to generate debate about information, technology's impact on real estate business practices, and old ways vs. new ways of tracking data. Can we stick to that and maybe in the process put the swords back in their sheaths?

Jed - I never called you anti semitic - I called you an anti dentite - it's a Seinfeld reference and was meant to be add an air of levity to the situation. Seems if you are going to be uber critical of a person a few times you could at least spell his name right.

When you mention an agent by name - you are attacking that person, whether your intent was to insult or not. When you mention a member of your association and then infer unethical actions and actions that warrant a lack of trust - that is an attack. Perhaps you didn't mean to make it personal - but it's pretty personal and when Garrett starts to field telephone calls about this and he has to justify his actions --- well it calls for a response.

As for my spelling (a mens) -- it was joke. You take yourself very seriously -- you have an ethical adviser (sweet gig that guy has) and I was thinking you should get a spell checker in addition to that ethical adviser - ha ha - funny joke.

As the broker of the firm, I'd be thrilled to bring more agents on board that share Garrett's passion for helping buyers and sellers. He is committed to giving his clients every piece of information -- AT NO COST. He made a mistake with regards to the dissemination of that information, was spoken to and has taken actions to rectify the situation. It's a dead issue.

You should check around and find out what Garrett's reputation is -- start with the very Board of Realtors you intend to run for. Ask them if they know Garrett -- what they think of him, whether he's an active and positive member who is looking to advance the mission and purpose of the Association. When you've done that, go check with people who have worked with Garrett. See what they think of his ethics and adherence to honesty and integrity. Once you've done that, take a second and tell him you are sorry for dragging his name through the mud - it would be greatly appreciated.

I've said my peace, piece, peeeeece.

Let me follow this. I criticize the action of a member of an organization for publically crowing about how he broke those rules to gain advantage. Because I inadvertently typed one common last name instead or the correct name, you feel that you can slander me and say that I hold a belief that I in fact do not.
It seems that you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing.
I said the "action was" unethical you take umbrage and accuse me of saying "he is" unethical. Your well thought out response is to say that "I am" anti-Semitic.
Any friggin agent can set up a "client portal" on the SF MLS. It's even called “Client Portal”.
Also I'd like to point out that as the broker you are responsible for your agents. To supervise and train and help prevent them from getting in trouble

"a mens" that would be amends unless you're making some veiled sexist remark

What is all this playa interview ya b.s. Are you a racist?

Why don't we just back of the escalation of personal attacks. Go back to the beginning and re-read the post. Let's keep the discussion to the issue. This is access to data. Public wants it and they want it at no cost to them. They don't want to have to register for it and they have a sense that they are entitled to it.
My opinion, this forum is for various opinions isn't it, is that we as Realtors need to change the rules of our organization and figure out a way to give the consumer the access they want. But the outlaw is not the hero. We don't need to spin you against me; we need to come up with a way that our information can be presented to the public so that it benefits us and not a third party.
We both know that the consumer doesn't care who benefits from the accessing of data as long as it isn't them. The consumer can go as far as they want into the subject and reach out when and if they feel it benefits them. It is at that point that we need to focus our industries energy. Right now we are seeing third party business models inserting themselves and then charging us for access to the consumer.
HomeGain is the number two real estate search site. Consumers seem to be voting approval. They charge the agent a 27% referral fee for a lead that closes. They don't charge a consumer upfront but they are placing themselves in the position of being the spot when the consumer reaches out.
Realtor.com is the number one real estate search site. You want to be in one of four or five top places when the consumer decides it's time to reach out. $10,000 dollars a year, thank you very much.

So to my fellow agents, this is not the time to be snapping at each other. I never attack anyone personally and I try to be forgiving of people that attack me personally, especially if they don't know me personally. Rhetoric and invective don't sway me and it doesn't stop me from pressing for discussion and action. I will attack actions that are taken, but never the person. It's just a basic parenting skill.
It is the time to be active and vociferous about the needed changes in our industry. In our phone conversation yesterday Garrett and I agreed that we need to work together within SFAR to build a strong alliance of involved agents that will bring these issues to the board and get action. It is my platform in running for a seat on the board this year and I am working to join with the other agent that Garrett mentioned to advance these issues.
You know what this reminds me of Garrett, grammer school you get in a fight with a classmate and you both get detention. During detention you find out you like the guy and you become friends. I believe you and I have the same goal and if we talk we can become allies.

Oh I get it Jed. You made a ridiculous statement, offended a few people (multiple times) and rather than just say sorry, you'll continue to try to make your point. You were wrong to use this blog as your personal forum -- everyone would agree to that. Your use of a word like unethical tells quite a bit about you. You can argue all the semantics you want - it was inappropriate as were you "anti dentite" statements.

You and your ethical adviser should stick to adding content to your own blog and focus on your own clients and your own business. Garrett has made a mens with the Board and he did so immediately.

Sounds like you are just pissed off that you didn't come up with a password protected client portal to assist clients by providing information. We're pretty damn tech savvy over @ Home-SanFrancisco. If you want to come over and discuss working for a brokerage where we see our role as honest, ethical brokers of information - by all means come on down. We'd be happy to interview ya.

Don't hate the playa Jed - hate the game.

Greg I'm sorry to have skipped over your comments.

you quote me "Garret is a member of the association of Realtors and he has sworn to abide by the rules of the organization. He is acting in an unethical way by breaking the rules of the association and he is doing it for his own advantage.”

Do you not see the word "acting" in the second sentence. Did I say he is unethical because he did . . . no I said his "action" was. Do you get it!

Garrett,
It was not intended to be in any way anti-semetic. I am not anti-anyone. The word I chose was perfect for the context. It denotes an accepted set of rules that are a guide to behaviour. I didn't want to use the same adjectives that I'd used to describe your actions again.
I made a mistake in typing your last name, doesn't matter why it happend, but it did and I apologize for mistyping your name.
You're absolutely right in that we don't know each other personally. Therefore how can you construe that I was attacking you personally when I don't know you. I didn't "defame" you. I might have decried your actions but only your actions. Go back and read the original post.
You say that you feel righteous about what you've done and are happy with the accolades you've gotten from the public. Garrett, I was ready to do exactly what you did three years or more ago. I asked myself why everyone else wasn't doing it and viola I found out it's not allowed. Just as many other actions are not allowed for us to do under civil professional code and the code of ethics.
When we talked on the phone today you sounded contrite. You said you realized that you'd made a mistake and you were working to make it right with the association. Getting up on your high horse here doens't show me much in the way of consistancy except in that you are going to consistantly do whatever you think you can do, damn the rules.

Jeff - Google gives information away for free. LOL How much money did they make last quarter. Do you pay for ad words or placement. Stock market quotes bounded by ads. All for your eyes. My point exactly. Someone is paying for you to get the information you request displayed and some one is being paid to put it together to be displayed. Imagine what raw data would look like and just how useful it would be.
Last point Jeff, he didn't use our rules to his advantage he broke our rules to his advantage.

Jed I do have a problem with what sounds and looks like an anti semitic attack. So I'd like to hear from your mouth (and a fat donation to you pick the Jewish organization) that using Garret's wrong last name but Jewish sounding nonetheless and the word kosher, that it was just a mistake.
You also ask who gives information away for free- have you not used google ? what did you pay for it? How about a stock market quote or any information regarding financial markets- not the government are they?

It seems Mr. Goldman used your associations rules to his advantage. Point to Goldman.

jed--

i'm going to excuse your border line anti-semitic intro and assume it was a coincidence that you used a different jewish last name and the word "kosher" in your first few lines.

i am confused by your "apology" after you defamed my character by calling me untrustworthy and unethical. you do not know me. if you did, you'd likely know that ethics and honesty are my strong suite. i may not be a strong "sales" person, but i can sleep at night knowing that i always act honestly (or have honest intentions) and i do my best to create complete transparency with all of my relationships--both business and personal. the fact that you have such a problem with me and my work is beyond me, but you certainly should pick up the telephone and voice your concerns directly to me, rather than in a public forum, your actions seem inappropriate to me.

the best part about all of this attention from my post and this most recent "controversy" has been all of the praise I have received from clients and the random public for what i'm doing and have done. the public wants the data. i'm not sure if you'd agree with this, but i think that hoarding data does not create good real estate agents. in fact, i'm so confident in this that i'm willing to show data (if I was allowed to) to any and all people and assume that these educated people would then want to use my services when the time was right. why should people "promise" to work with me before i share data with them? it makes sense to me to educate an interested buyer/seller before we even start the search so that i can focus on what i do best--advise, not regurgitate "protected" data.

the fact is, i made a mistake by displaying the data in the first place. that mistake was brought to my attention by somebody at the san francisco association of realtors and i corrected the violation immediately by requiring my clients to log in with a password to view the sold statistics. from what i understand, my clients are allowed to see the data, but the general public is not.

do you really have a blogging ethical adviser? if so, can you put me in touch with him or her, i'm interested in exploring a new career path and that sounds right up my alley.

Jed - His name is Garrett Goldman -- not Garrett Goldstein. Again - when being critical of someone or their position, sort of helps to get your facts straight. At least insult him with the right name.

I'm not defending him as an office mate, I'm defending him as his broker and co-owner of a company that prides itself on providing information to our clients and acting in a transparent, honest and ethical manner.

Immediately after receiving a complaint and notice from the SF Board, Garrett complied and made the information available to his clients only - not the general public. This is the same way ZipRealty and Redfin are able to display active data - they require a relationship to be established and Garrett is doing just that.

Last thing - you checked with your blogging ethical adviser - really - you have an ethical adviser and that person thought it was ok to write this
"Garret is a member of the association of Realtors and he has sworn to abide by the rules of the organization. He is acting in an unethical way by breaking the rules of the association and he is doing it for his own advantage."So your adviser says it's ok to call someone unethical and be the judge and jury with regards to why a specific act was done. Nice ethical adviser - does he help the oil companies too?

Greg,
I responded to the post which named Garrett Goldstein and painted him a champion of a position that is not allowed by the association that we both belong to.

I don't know Garrett, although I did just get a call from him. My point in my comment is that his "actions" were not kosher. Since I don't know him I in no way meant to impugne his person or his professional ethics.

I want to make it very clear that we will probably become allies in the push from within to get this data out, but the original post chose to paint his actions as noble and the rest of us as trying to keep secrets.

In my writing I used his name because he was named in the article. I've checked with my blogging ethical advisor and been advised that I did nothing to be ashamed of.

I applaude your defense of your office mate and I want you and Garrett to know that his name could have Bob Smith, if he was named in the article and I say the "person named" or the actions of the "agent" were . . . it would still have the same effect.

Jed,

I find it astonishing you would question Garrett's ethics or whether he is trustworthy - least of all on a public blog. You should be ashamed of yourself. He's an easily reachable individual - if you have issue with him, contact him directly.

Thanks for the quote but you skipped my main point. Garret is a member of the association of Realtors and he has sworn to abide by the rules of the organization. He is acting in an unethical way by breaking the rules of the association and he is doing it for his own advantage.

If and when we all have the ability to give access to the sold data set we probably all will but until then Garrett is not acting in an honest or trustworthy way.
In a service provider you definately want to trust the provider. An agent that lies to his associates to benefit himself does not merit trust as I see it.

Now to the data. The data is available to anyone that wants to go down to any county recorders office and look it up.
We are not talking about the data being free or secret we are talking about "access" to the data.

I can't find any business or industry that spends resources to gather data to give it away. Look at the ads on all the sites, look at how much they charge Realtors for placement.

Governments give the data away, business don't. All of you that read anything about real estate have heard of DataQuick. They get all the info from all those county recorders offices. If you want it from them it's available for only a couple of HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.

The data set that comprises the sold information should be available and there are many of us working in the industry to make it happen. You want to know why, because if we don't we are going to be the ones that pay for your access.

Data doesn't want to be free, the consumer of the data just doesn't want to pay for it. So the gatherers of the data get someone else to pay. Advertising, pay per click, placement all kinds of plans are in place but the data ain't free.

Hiding info for ANY reason does not inspire trust. Just speaking as a client to the service provider. It's pretty important that I trust you.

Geez, I am with Garrett: this ain't nuclear weapon secret info! And since you can get the data elsewhere, this seems like a tempest in a teapot

My pleasure. And, yes, guilty: I almost always yada/blah fineprint. Bad habit, probably- why I am stuck with a really uselss cell phone contract til 2009! But in this case, unless you had a clause in there about having to sign over my first born child should I fail to meet the terms of agreement, I think I'm safe. This is the MLS, right? Not the mafia?

ah, no, looks like you blah, blahed the fine print. thanks for making this issue more public, i'm fairly certain that everybody just wants info and i'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be so protected.

did you just yadda, yadda my fine print? ;)